Hi to all,
Sorry to be rude, but in front of my eyes my favourite Joomla extension SEBLOD is becoming worst and worst!
You, yes you SEBLOD team, haven't answered many old free and paid questions but have managed to add many more new futures, free and paid, to which you have even more unanswered questions. Please stop making staff for yourself and start thinking for us - your users.
I can point many simple tasks (forum topics, tracker issues) which have been explicitly outlined and highlighted to you, even some of them were answered for you, but you never pay attention to what we tell you, you keep going and going. Where are going, what's the harry? You've taken the wrong road! Listen to me, I don't want to be a bad predictor, but this is not the right way!
What is this forum, this is not a forum, this a dog's barking contest! Everyone is complaining, very few competent answers or no answers at all. What we get is promises: we will do that, we can do that, thank you for your suggestion, thank you for telling us, and after that we expect something really to be done about that, but mounts and years after that there is still no solution for that problem. On top you keep developing and developing new staff like you have sorted all your old issues and everything is just fine, no one is after what you are really doing, the new staff will blind the old issues. Yes, but no. I can tell you, I'm on the edge, I cannot continue with your new stuff until I don't see solutions to my old problems. I'm not telling you to stop developing but stop galloping. I cannot take your new staff seriously until you don't sort out your old stuff, with this manner you are going to attract only new customers, but the new customers sooner or later will become your old customers and they will know what you are doing.
Particularly about the Seblod forum, sorry again, but it is very "simple": the most wanted and used to forum futures are not there: "unread posts, new answers, rating, thanks, who is online, Forum stats, copy and paste not working as it should, new enter line not working, ........................................, many, many, many more". Why don't you concentrate on what you do best?
God bless SEBLOD,
Regards,
Ricco
Hi.
Ofcourse you are right in a lot of things, but some work and bug fixes are done.
I hope with release of seblod 3.4 and moving to github will come the new wave of seblod growing. Because in git community can participate in development in some way.
Jeka
Come on Ricco, i can understand your frustation up to a point, but we are talking about a free extension which has many free plugins and a growing community with more knowledge everyday. And to answer your question: yes it is worth!!! definitely!!! Documentation is getting better, Joomlas roadmap is getting clearer (so does Seblods), despite many pains and tears more people are using seblod :) Everything will be fine...
Ricco i dont know which problems you have currently on your projects, but i will check your threads. I am really really not so good in Seblod as i wish but maybe i could help you yet.
My thoughts:
I don't want to knock the developers in this post or the community in any-way shape or form. But just wanted to share some thoughts with suggestions for improvements.
Seblod has the potential to be awesome, but at the moment it is also very frustrating. I really want to love it, but sometimes it is hard. I would say though that for the most part the community here does try to help each other out as much as possible, and that is a good thing.
Although at points develop seems slow, that is understandable if people are giving this away for free.
Biggest frustration and time waster
I think that the main problems I have, come down to documentation. If you try and do anything that is slightly away from "adding a field", things get a little hazy (creating an RSS feed from a search result list for example). Documentation is bad in a number of different areas;
- Within the app itself. I often hover over a field (as it looks like it might have a tool-tip or something) in the hope that I would find out some more information about what is does or affects, and there is nothing.
- While there has been some new docs put on this site. So much important information still remains on the "V2" version of the site. People in the forums are often directed back there.
- There seems to be so much "secret" knowledge, about how to do things. Some of this is found in the forms, of which the search is pretty poor. Some in the old forums, which I think that search has been switched off.
- There are some good videos out there from community members that have really helped. I'm always so thankful and amazed that people have give their time freely to help others. Thanks. Google or Youtube searches tend to work well, but it would be great to have some type of collection here on the Seblod domain.
- I've tried to watch some videos from last years (Joomla) events that Seblod spoke at, and my goodness the recordings were the worst I've seen (terrible audio and not really able to even see what is going on) but seemed to contain good important help information. I know that this is not Seblod fault at all, but please at least check things are setup ok.
- Some of the extensions, evening understanding what they do, is ambiguous
I've used Yootheme's Zoo for years and years and one thing I appreciate is their documentation. Although it at points seems a little lacking, at least it is clear and to the point.
Suggestion for improvement (a community call)
I know that documentation writing is a real chore, but I wonder if we as the community could possible participate more in this process, and build a really well documented CCK. Leaving the developers to continue to work on... well.... developing the product, and only jumping in where needed. I know to a point that this already seems to happen, but is there room for improvement.
Yootheme use github for their documentation, which I think is a brilliant idea and something that could really work well for Sebold. Or hack even a wiki could work. Also I think that this would expose the gaps in documentation (knowledge) where the develops can easily jump in. Even just transferring and updating the old V2 documentation would be a good starting point.
Suggestion for training resulting in documentation
Something I have even considered, is buying time with the developers just for training on some of the knowledge gaps I have while trying to complete projects. Maybe there could be some sort of deal where there was a portion of free time given by the developer in exchange for create the documentation after will real world examples. I know that there would need to be some sort of coordination with that, but I think it would be possible.
For example one hour of time (which that developers currently give away one hour at the moment) with the developer to go through a predetermined subject/s. Then serval hours of documentation given by the person based on the training. I would see the benefit for Seblod and the documentation being huge.
Closing remarks
This has become a long reply, but I think Seblod could be "worth it" if documentation improved. And I'll willing to help. What's your response (community)?
Possibly some of the frustrations that Ricco feels in that questions going unanswered might be solved with great documentation.
Thanks again to all in the community to help out, and Seblod who are on their way to making a better CCK.
... Within the app itself. I often hover over a field (as it looks like it might have a tool-tip or something) in the hope that I would find out some more information about what is does or affects, and there is nothing.Totally agree. Just some short tooltips about possible input values/format would be a real game changer! I can feel your pain!!! ;)
When (soon) seblod on GitHub, things like this are easy to fix... many coders (includes me) provide some code changes in seblod but i believe as they review it manually they've been overwhelmed with this... so github will make things faster i believe
Hi
a book about Seblod is planned for the end of this year by the great Axel Tüting but as the name implies it will be only in german. He was so kind and gave me and some other people a few chapters to read and it is really promising!
I am pretty sure that the publisher will not bring out an english version but maybe the translation could be financed by the community for example via a crowdfunding platform or so.
@Ricco, Seblod is best option in joomla to build customize website, you can do your homework by search all available CCK, and tell me on hows your finding.
Documentation probably is the most challenging one for seblod. If you ever work to build website for someone and your client ask the documentation, how-to guide... that's how hard it is for technical people like us.
Don't hope for 100% 'out of the box' solution, you will get dissapointed, instead increase your skill to understand how it works so you can adjust it to works according to your need... some time i build a 'dummy' list just so i can 'freely' code anything i want without breaking joomla ecosystem... Thats how flexible seblod is..
Thank you, I just want SEBLOD to be better.
no offense guys, but if you are not capable to use seblod, then do not use it. J+S are not the solution for every problem or project. Especially Seblod is a powerfull tool, but with a weak documentation if you compare it to the infinite possibilities it gives us. Also it is not recommendable for beginners, who are not familiar with HTML/CSS/PHP and of course Joomla. Most people blame Seblod, although they lack in basic programming knowledge.
Please dont get me wrong, i am far away to be a great developer like Simon, Viktor or Cyril here in this forum. But with good HTML/CSS and advanced PHP knowledge, i created really complicated projects i would never dreamed before.
only my two cents
Hi Ricco, and everyone else who has posted on this thread,
TL;DR: Is SEBLOD worth it? Yes.
For me personally, SEBLOD has enabled me to rapidly expand my web development business beyond just offering standard brochure-style websites and build more functional web applications. This, in turn, has meant much more income for my business and also much more interesting projects to build :).
Frustration is evident in your post. I've felt this frustration before too, because yes detailed documentation is sparse. You're frustrated because you know that SEBLOD is a really great component, but you don't know how to learn to use it to it's full potential. At this point I say hang in there. If old questions haven't been answered, bring them up again. Keep asking questions and keep persevering because this component is worth it.
The SEBLOD project and this forum
I'm not talking on behalf of the SEBLOD team here, but SEBLOD is in a period of transition. Look at the considerable new features that have been rolled out in the past 8 months. The launch of the new SEBLOD.com, the marketplace and this forum are massive steps forwards. I know you were critical of this forum, but everything on this site is a demonstration of SEBLOD and what it can do. Using SEBLOD in every element of this site enables the developers to drive the development of new features that develop the community. Yes, it may mean that initially the forum doesn't have all the same features as Kunena, but over time more features will come. SEBLOD is a component that aims to empower you to build almost every feature on your site with 1 component. It doesn't make sense for this site to be built with lots of different components. Look at the SEBLOD marketplace, all powered with eCommerce functionality built with SEBLOD. That's incredible and exciting for the community because you know that this functionality will eventually be available for you to use as well.
The recent additions of paid support options to SEBLOD.com are also big steps forwards for the community. This now provides developers with a way to take on bigger projects, knowing that support is available. You can have confidence in taking on bigger projects using SEBLOD and knowing that you'll be able to get support if you get stuck. On the support options page it says "Because we do care about your projects, and we want your business to be successful, our experts are ready to help." I can say from first hand experience that the SEBLOD team mean 100% of this.
I disagree with your comment about telling the developers to stop galloping. New features get rolled out to the community because they are parts of other websites that the developers take the time to make in to SEBLOD plugins, add-ons etc. This is why it seems that they are "going in the wrong direction", but personally, I want them as soon as they are available. I don't want them to slow down because I love seeing all the new stuff that gets released on the market place.
Documentation
You will see considerable progress in documentation before the end of this year. This was planned for earlier this year but some large projects caused delay. I am directly involved with this which is why I know it will happen. I really like your suggestion for using Github for managing documentation and letting the community participate. Leave this with me.
I can't do anything to solve your immediate frustration in this post, but I do encourage you to continue using the component because it IS great. Keep watching SEBLOD.com for more communication and documentation in the coming months. And, where you can, help people less knowledgeable than you on this forum learn the basics.
_jrmo (SEBLOD fanboy).
hi.
zwergo how i can contact you? there is no PM on forum.
SEBLOD, when are you going to make any changes to this unsatisfying forum?
I follow a few forums but this one I cannot, its unpredictable, I don't know how to follow it. No subscribe to this topic, no see new topics after your last log in, no see replays. Please take care, don't go too far ahead of your users.
Hi,
Thank you James.
Yes OK, SEBLOD is worth it, but what about the FORUM. No one is going to make a forum with SEBLOD, only SEBLOD. And this is stopping SEBLOD, because they don't think how to make SEBLOD better, they spend time on thinking how they can make their SEBLOD forum better, just because the users will know that there is an option that they can make a forum with SEBLOD. BUT who is going to make a forum in the nearest 10 years with SEBLOD? NO ONE!
That's why I asked:
"Why don't you concentrate on what you do best?"
The SEBLOD forum is around 42 out of 100.
Regards,
ricco
May be if SEBLOD will release some kind of Forum app, but I'm a VIP member and I don't have use of their so called ready apps at all. They need many changes before they can be used, unfortunately.
This topic is marked as solved, that's why I've made a new one:
¬